Unveiling Kay Sage’s World / interview with Nadia Arioli

Sally Brown
January 2024

Poet Nadia Arioli provides a captivating glimpse into her latest book, “BE STILL” (Kelsay Books, 2023), centered around surrealist artist Kay Sage. In this  interview, Arioli discusses her shift to a confessional style and the unique narrative choice of channeling Sage’s lens over her own. The conversation delves into the thematic structure, Arioli’s surreal writing process, and the cathartic nature of exploring dark and anxious tones, ultimately inviting readers to join her on a profound exploration of Sage’s art and life.

Sally Brown: You’ve written that a majority of your previous writing has been “confessional.” Why did you decide to go in this direction, mostly writing through Kay Sage’s lens, rather than your own?

Nadia Arioli: I think it had to do with the odd ramifications of being known. I felt seen and not seen. People started assuming that since they knew my secrets they knew me. It made me feel lonely. Also, I got bored and wanted to branch out. I wanted a sort of justice for Kay Sage. No one knows she existed, she painted, she died. Her paintings are en par with any great artist, and I thought people should know.

SB: Why did you select surrealist Kay Sage (1898-1963) as the individual to write this book around?

NA: I felt drawn to her paintings, the bleak landscapes of mind. I thought her paintings had enough going on to describe in interesting ways but also open to interpretation. She also had a sad life story with some similar struggles.

SB: What is the significance of the Goethe excerpt in German that introduces the book?

NA: That’s the first time I’ve been asked that, actually. In the poem, the speaker contemplates the Ginkgo tree, which famously has split leaves, one half mirroring the other. My collection deals with a sort of doubling: myself and Sage, ekphrasis, poetry and paint, self and spouse. The last two lines translate to “Is it not my songs’ suggestion? / That I am one but also two?”

SB: It seems like you present her work chronologically, and aligns with Sage’s life, is that right? Also, your writing style is so incredibly surreal, I couldn’t imagine a better capture of her aura. What was your writing process?

NA: That is mostly right. I present her paintings chronologically but the narrative hops around a little. The first line of the book is from the title of Sage’s suicide note (who gives a suicide note a title?): This is the end of useless light.

It’s nice to hear that my writing is surreal. I actually don’t think of it that way. I know it’s odd and has a lot of body fluids, and some may find it disconcerting. But I don’t think it’s dream-like. Perhaps this is because I don’t think of myself as dream-like; I’m earthy and blunt and abrasive, on a good day.

My writing process was to go through Sage’s catalog (collected and published by the invaluable Stephen Robeson Miller) and sticky-note the paintings of historic importance or ones that spoke to me. Then I wrote a poem for each one, at a rate of about two a week.

SB: Sometimes, you include what seems to be messages from you (the author) to the reader, explaining things or even personal situations. What led you to “mix up” the Kay Sage narrative?

NA: Boredom! Well, not exactly. I tend to be hyper-focused when putting together my books, and I know that can be a little repetitive or tedious to read. I’ve been accused of beating dead horses before. So I wanted to loosen up the confines a little. I thought of it like a concept album. There’s a theme, an arc, a structure, but every song has its own unique concerns and melody.

SB: The narrative seems mostly very haunting, dark and anxious, even when writing about falling in love. Was this a cathartic process? Are you aiming to open up frank discussions around mental health?

NA: Yes, it was cathartic. The reason the falling in love poems were so ominous has to do with Sage’s life, not mine. (I’m happily married.) She had a doomed first marriage to an Italian prince. Then, she married the surrealist painter Yves Tanguy. Their marriage was described by their friends as intense, volatile, and that they were enmeshed in each other. Tanguy died suddenly of a brain aneurysm and Sage couldn’t go on. You can take it to mean they really did love each other after all. Or you can take it as a sign of codependency. I think the truth, as usual, is both.

SB: Are all of them named after a painting? (I found most but not all). When looking at the images, sometimes it helped me (the reader) follow your writing. Was your intent that readers would look up her works?

NA: All the poems were “On” poems, so each title was “On ‘X’ by Kay Sage”. The intention was to have people look up the paintings–I wanted people to see her art because I think it’s important. But not everyone is going to be able to find all of her paintings, and I think that’s okay too, because I think the poems can stand on their own. The poems are intended to be ginkgo biloba with the paintings.

SB: Do you have a favorite Sage painting? Why?

NA: I would say “I Saw Three Cities.” At least, I have a soft spot for that one, as it is the first painting by Sage I saw. The painting was part of a Surrealist exhibition I saw as a child, the only painting by Sage, I might add. I committed the title and painter to memory because I could feel Sage’s power. About fifteen years later, I decided to look up that painting again because I wanted to write a poem about it. Things got a little out of hand, and now I have a full-length book of poems about Kay Sage.

SB: What’s your next project? Will you take on another (woman) artist?

NA: I’m not sure! I do have a chapbook book coming out this year on television programs, and a full length coming out next year on motherhood. So, kind of adjacent to women artists in that the first one is ekphrasis in a way and the second is about being a kind of woman. I don’t think I will write about another woman artist, as I think I need a little break from that. As for what I’m writing, truthfully, I haven’t written in months. But something will come to me. It always does.

“BE STILL Poems for Kay Sage” by Nadia Arioli →

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Nadia Arioli is the cofounder and editor in chief of Thimble Literary Magazine. Arioli’s poetry has been nominated for Best of the Net three times and for the Pushcart Prize and can be found in Cider Press Review, Rust + Moth, McNeese Review, Penn Review, Mom Egg, and elsewhere. Essays have been nominated for Best of the Net and the Pushcart Prize and can be found in Hunger Mountain, Heavy Feather Review, SOFTBLOW, and elsewhere. Artwork has appeared in Permafrost, Kissing Dynamite, Meat for Tea, Pithead Chapel, Rogue Agent, and Poetry Northwest. Arioli’s forthcoming collections are with Dancing Girl Press and Fernwood Press.

Sally Brown is an artist, curator and writer currently based in Morgantown. Her artwork including drawing, painting and performance, explores womanhood, motherhood and the body.  She has exhibited her work in spaces nationally and in the UK. She has won two awards for illustration for Intimates and Fools and Leaves of Absence, both with poetry by Laura Madeline Wiseman. She has participated in artist residences in Tennessee, Pennsylvania and Buenos Aires. Her writing has been published in Hyperallergic, Women’s Art Journal and Artslant, among others. She has curated group shows in Omaha, Nashville, Pittsburgh and Morgantown. She holds a Bachelor of Arts-Studio Art, a Master of Public Administration and Master of Arts- Art History and Feminist Theory. She is a former member of the College Art Association National Committee on Women in the Arts, edited the online journal Les Femmes Folles, and currently serves as Exhibits Coordinator for West Virginia University Libraries.